Aram Sargsyan: “Otherwise, they won’t forgive us”
"A1+" sat down for an interview with leader of "Hanrapetutyun" (Republic) Party Aram Sargsyan to discuss revelations of Wikileaks and internal political affairs.
"A1+": Mr. Sargsyan, how would you assess the latest revelations of Wikileaks?
Aram Sargsyan: We can't ignore the process and not touch upon it, but it isn't worth going deep into it. One gets the impression that the whole world knows that Armenia has falsified elections, an illegitimate government, violations in courts and the Constitutional Court and that nothing has been done. Every country, in this case the United States has tried to pursue its own interests and solve its problems at the price of the situation created in Armenia. This is very sad, but very natural. The Armenian government's objective must be to lead a policy that will help the government confront challenges more flexibly and not leave the solution of the country's issue on this or that power and not become an instrument that will help those countries pursue their interests.
"A1+": Does this mean that there is disappointment with the Western powers, specifically the United States' indifference?
A.S.: I wouldn't say Western powers, but injustice in the world. We must understand that there is no justice in the world. God is just. Each country is trying to pursue its interests and solve its problems. Armenia must be clever and try to synthesize our problems and get the most out of that.
"A1+": The Armenian opposition was expecting scandalous revelations after the series of Wikileaks revelations began, but we saw quite a lot of documents related to the opposition's actions and the HAK leader. Nobody knows what will be revealed next, but was there anything new about Levon Ter-Petrosyan in those documents?
A.S.: Absolutely not. Levon Ter-Petrosyan has talked about those issues at the rallies and there was no secret. I think it was the U.S.'s efforts that led to some results that helped us enter Freedom Square, but of course, we didn't underestimate the presence and influence of the people. Even though it is formal, but that also made the government open the page of March 1 and assign a formal committee that will engage in dialogue with the opposition. In that context, the West and Europe played a great role.
"A1+": You're speaking of internal political affairs, but a part of the reports was related to foreign affairs and the Nagorno-Karabakh conflict. In that regard, how would you assess the revelations and David Shahnazaryan's meetings with U.S. diplomats?
A.S.: The HAK and Levon Ter-Petrosyan have always talked about the need for a speedy solution to the Karabakh issue. So, that's not news.
"A1+": But at the price of concessions?
A.S.: I have always supported the change from no war, no peace to peace and I find that that change will take place through mutual concessions. I have always believed that the Madrid Principles can serve as the basis for continuing negotiations, Peace and inheriting a peaceful region to the future generations is our generation's main objective.
"A1+": Pro-government presses and circles standing close to the government see some betrayal in the meetings between HAK representatives and diplomats. How would you describe those meetings and the sincerity? Do you think it is correct to discuss issues of national concern with foreign diplomats?
A.S.: In the geopolitical sense, super powers have recently shown great interest in this region and the international community is trying to find solutions. In that sense, they are not only asking the government's viewpoint, but are also interested in the people's approaches. They place much importance on public opinion, which depends on the government and the opposition. If the government has an influence on the society, its message gets across to the society because the government has more levers and broader opportunities. Whatever they say, today's society, either pro-government or oppositionist, is waiting to hear what Levon Ter-Petrosyan is going to say at this rally and I'm even sure that people are listening online as well. They think he will say something wise. That is why Levon Ter-Petrosyan is the person who has the keys to getting the country out of this situation. I don't see any solution of the Nagorno-Karabakh issue that will lead Armenia to a victory. If there is such a solution and someone who can ensure a solution without war, let him come and explain to the people, prove the truth and I will stand next to that person. But I don't see such an opportunity. As far as betrayal is concerned, that is a very serious charge and I wouldn't want to hear such groundless views.
"A1+": Let's move on to internal political affairs. Taking into account the fact that the authorities are sentencing a chief of road police to jail and Hovhannes Tamamyan is in prison for participation in the events of March 1, do you see any progress, or are these steps part of the pre-electoral propaganda and are being taken for PR?
A.S.: It s very important to be able to see the country within and try to assess the state of affairs. Do we need changes in Armenia or not? Yes, we definitely do.
"A1+": Are you content with the changes?
A.S.: I would like to approach the issue more globally. The current authorities say everything is fine, that they are legitimate and that the events of March 1 didn't take place. They have convinced themselves that there is no need for state reforms since we are living better than the people in neighboring countries. This is what makes the continuation of negotiations nonsensical. If they don't see it and say it by applying techniques, that is a lie. The government doesn't have the right to lie. It has to tell the people the truth. The authorities consider themselves the best rulers and that those who come after them will not do a good job. They keep flattering themselves and are cut off from society, and this frustrates the society more.We must make the authorities understand that we are not the only ones calling the elections into question and that the whole world knows what happened in Armenia. If people are coming out to the streets after all this, this means that there is a need for changes. Those changes must be radical and must be several times more democratic than the changes in Azerbaijan and Georgia.
"A1+": How serious is expecting radical changes from the dialogue with the authorities? Do you really have hope that the dialogue will continue?
A.S.: I have always thought the government knows the situation better than us because they have more opportunities and analytical structures that are paid to provide information. I have come to realize that these authorities won't follow Gadhafi's example. I wouldn't say the same for the previous administration, but this one is different in that it takes such things into account. The society determines the fate of the country. The society determines what I will say at the rally and makes the authorities take a step further. The issue of working with the society turns into the most important issue. Talks about loving the homeland turn into demagogy when one says go abroad, work and send money to the homeland. That is not how one loves the homeland. This government is not doing anything to make the society feel that it is loved. It ignores the society's opinion, then mocks it and wants the society to say that everything is fine. They are making up heroes. They are forgetting about the real heroes. Heroes either exist or they don't.
Let's face the situation together and try to give correct solutions through the Constitution.
"A1+": Mr. Sargsyan, is the September 9 rally likely to become a cornerstone since the dialogue with the authorities is frozen due to certain discrepancies? Will there be any activity?
A.S.: The people should be active and think about the complexity, fear and changing our children's notions of the future. If we destroy the wall inside, the real wall will definitely crumble. Believe me when I say that the presence of a crowd at the rally is determinant. Those who sit at home, complain and ask what will happen if they attend the rally should come and see what will happen. The active people should participate in the process. Active participation leads to crystallization and that leads to victory.
"A1+": Do you believe in changes in Armenia and snap elections?
A.S.: I definitely do.
"A1+": Do you take into account the current state, that is, the Wikileaks revelations and the possible disappointment with the government and the opposition?
A.S.: Yes, I take all that into consideration and I know this government. I was once a member of the Republican Party of Armenia. I was the prime minister and I know many of them well. I also know Serzh Sargsyan. Stepan Demirchyan and I have undergone many trials and tribulations. Throughout the years, I have heard Levon Ter-Petrosyan's advice and speeches, and I surely say that the time has come for change.
Placing all the good and bad sides on a scale, I clearly see that the future generations won't forgive us for not making changes. I really want the current authorities to realize that and make changes. The people will appreciate it.
Interview by Diana Markosyan
