VLADIMIR KAZIMIROV: RUSSIA CAN DO MUCH FOR KARABAKH CONFLICT SETTLEMENT

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Day.az exclusive interview with OSCE Minsk Group former Russian Co-Chair Vladimir Kazimirov

-What can you say about the current state of negotiations as a diplomat aware of the details of the Karabakh conflict?

-This is why the settlement of this conflict is vital both for Azerbaijan and Armenia, and especially for Nagorno Karabakh. However, do those contacts though on a high level correspond to this importance? Is do not think they do. Presidents, Foreign Ministers of the two states meet 5-6 times a year and this changes nothing. As the saying goes, things are right where they started. Of course more intense talks are necessary.

-Why three superpowers like Russia, US and France fail to settle a dispute of two small states like Azerbaijan and Armenia?

-The Nagorno Karabakh conflict should be solved by the parties involved in the conflict first of all, while the superpowers can merely have an influence for them finding common points. In his words, there are no serious talks without concessions. However Presidents have not started making the society ready for these, just the opposite – for many years they assured they will gain and not give. Armenians should understand they have to return the territories and Azerbaijan should understand that it is necessary to solve the issue of the status of Nagorno Karabakh. But the two countries are engaged not in what is necessary, but in deceiving themselves. They should engage themselves is strengthening the cease-fire regime and reconciling. Azerbaijan has to give up militant terminology, while Armenia – from absurd ideas of “liberated”, i.e. occupied territories of Azerbaijan. I have been stating for several years already that participation of Nagorno Karabakh in the talks will only benefit Azerbaijan. However, Baku agrees to it in no way. At the same time considering that someone from the outside will put press and the problem will solve automatically is naïve.

-You are one of those, who criticize Mr. Atkinson, the CoE rapporteur on Nagorno Karabakh. Has your position undergone any changes?

-I suppose he deserves greater criticism. Mr. Atkinson prepared a rather perfunctory report. He did not go beyond the seized Azeri territories and the fate of replaces persons. He did not wish to go into the heart of the matter. Maybe he would better dig deeper and there would have been many questions: how it all happened, why the hostilities had not ceased for so long and the UN Security Council resolutions were not fulfilled? There would have been no occupation and outcomes if the conflict was solved within the legal framework by means of political tools. The document is composed to provide a cause to Baku for deciding the issue by force. As Armenians are either slier or more constructive. All of these I view as incompetence of Mr. Atkinson, who did not wish to go deeply into the essence of the conflict seriously. One should not forget that the PACE decision is of recommendation nature and the parties to conflict contrived not to fulfill even UN SC compulsory resolutions. Moreover, due to a protracted information, or rather disinformation war, the Karabakh settlement has acquired a large number of myths, legends, false ides and new ones will hardly change anything.

-What can you say about stepwise settlement of the conflict?

-The stepwise settlement Azerbaijan stands up for cannot be started without mutual obligations of the parties to abandon the temptation of applying force. A great deal of naivety is needed for either party to the conflict to hope that it can resume the war from favorable positions. The stepwise settlement demands material guaranties such as demilitarization of the seized regions and the involvement of weighty international guarantors. Do not think that Armenia will return seven regions surrounding Karabakh without serious guarantees by Azerbaijan, as well as superpowers and international organizations. First of all Azerbaijan will have to amend its public statements over deciding the issue by force. In their turn Armenians should give up the attitude of “liberated territories” that is based on power and is fallacious in its essence.

-Many people both in Azerbaijan and Armenia state that Moscow has the key to the solution of the Karabakh problem. Can you comment on it?

-I agree. Late Heydar Aliyev told it to me, too. I told him then to give Moscow a chance to turn that key, but he kept silent… It seems to me there are forces that do not wish Moscow to solve the issue. However, I assure you that Russia can do much for settlement of the Karabakh conflict.

-How do you assess Turkey’s role in the conflict?

-Unfortunately I should note that Turkey behaves like a party to conflict though it is member of the Minsk Group. In my opinion Turkey should not have taken Azerbaijan’s part so one-sidedly. But for this Turkey could do much for the conflict settlement. Presently it can only convince Azerbaijan to make concessions.